When we look at fossil fuels, there are many challenges. Much of this is because the process of extracting these resources is inefficient and dirty, and our ever increasing demand for energy creates challenging political situations
Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt here with another FUTR podcast.
Upwing Energy is bringing new technology to make the extraction of fossil fuels more effective. Sometimes the path to a greener future is incremental, through key improvements to our existing systems, making them cleaner and more efficient. Upwing's solution lets us extract more from our existing resources making us less dependent on dirtier options or foreign sources.
So let's talk with Herman Artinian about what they are doing and how it all works.
Welcome Herman
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FUTR.tv focuses on startups, innovation, culture and the business of emerging tech with weekly podcasts featuring Chris Brandt and Sandesh Patel talking with Industry leaders and deep thinkers.
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When we look at fossil fuels, there are many challenges. Much of this is because the process of extracting these resources is inefficient and dirty, and our ever increasing demand for energy creates challenging political situations
Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt here with another FUTR podcast.
Upwing Energy is bringing new technology to make the extraction of fossil fuels more effective. Sometimes the path to a greener future is incremental, through key improvements to our existing systems, making them cleaner and more efficient. Upwing's solution lets us extract more from our existing resources making us less dependent on dirtier options or foreign sources.
So let's talk with Herman Artinian about what they are doing and how it all works.
Welcome Herman
Click Here to Subscribe:
FUTR.tv focuses on startups, innovation, culture and the business of emerging tech with weekly podcasts featuring Chris Brandt and Sandesh Patel talking with Industry leaders and deep thinkers.
Occasionally we share links to products we use. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases on Amazon.
There are many challenges with fossil fuels, and much of this is because the process of extracting these resources is inefficient and dirty, and our ever increasing demand for energy creates challenging political situations. Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt here with another future podcast. Upwing Energy is bringing new technology to make the extraction of fossil fuels more effective. Sometimes the path to a greener future is incremental through key improvements to our existing systems, making them cleaner and more efficient. And that's what Upwing's doing. Upwing's solution lets us extract more from our existing resources, making us less dependent on dirtier options or foreign resources. So let's talk with Herman Artinian, CEO of Upwing Energy, about what they are doing and how it all works. Welcome, Herman. Thank you. Well, thanks for being on. I, this is going to be an interesting conversation because, you know, we were talking before and, uh, I mentioned how I like the, the nitty gritty of how like, you know, key infrastructure things work. Why first is drilling wells so inefficient and why is like so much of those resources left in the ground so that we have to continually, you know, go into new areas and start drilling?
Herman Artinian:Great question. But just to make sure drilling unconventional shale assets is not very efficient. And that's where we are right now. So today in the United States, specifically, 85% of our natural gas production. Unconventional shell assets that have to be drilled, fracked, uh, uh, as then the recoverability of those what's been determined to be underground. We only are able to recover 10 to 12% of that.
Chris Brandt:To think that only like 10 to 12% of that. It's actually being extracted.
Herman Artinian:Yes. That's, that's. It's, it's a name of economics, right? I mean, you can justify it with X amount of production, with X amount of cost. The market is happy to pay. And there you are. Versus you can roll back, you know, 20, 30, 40 years ago, large, what we call conventional, basically you just had to. Drill one for analogy purposes, put your straw in and it's been producing for decades and decades and decades. So put your straw in.
Chris Brandt:I like that. That's it. That's what we do. For example, in Los Angeles, there's all these little buildings all over Los Angeles with, with, with beautiful facades, but they're really just fake facades and with oil rigs, for example. So. You know, these things are all over the place, too.
Herman Artinian:It's all over the place and it's necessary. And I didn't even know about those facades, uh, um, you know, uh, in, in West L. A. for years and years that I lived here. Only recently I figured out. When I saw these fracking trucks and stuff enter from the back, it's like, where are they going? In this beautiful condo. It's not a beautiful condo.
Chris Brandt:But those are some of the old traditional resources, right? I mean, those things have been around for a long time.
Herman Artinian:That's right. I mean, I, I live in, in Huntington Beach. And if you look at some of the pictures of Huntington Beach, Long Beach, uh, from the 30s, 40s, uh, you will not be able to recognize it was Huntington Beach. Every 10 feet, there's oil there. There's an oil well. It's amazing. That's crazy. Yeah. And we still have some all over the place. A lot of offshore as well. So they're only getting like 10 to 12% of the resources out of that. Unconventionals. Yeah. So when you're talking about the fracking industry that revolutionized these unconventional assets in Pennsylvania, some parts of Hainesville in Texas, there, it's all about how cheap you could drill. And, and how fast you can bring it to production. That's the cycle. And I don't think it's environment, environmentally sustainable, uh, um, at the rate that they're going just for natural gas, we need to drill somewhere around four to 5, 000 wells per year. to be able to meet up with demand. Forget about the, the, the demand that's growing, just to meet today's demand.
Chris Brandt:Those wells are often not drilled in places where, you know, we want them to be, you know, they impact natural, you know, uh, landscapes and, and, and natural habitats of, of wildlife and things like that, right?
Herman Artinian:Sure. I mean, look, I have to give some credit. Uh, it's not, As bad as it used to be 15 years ago, we've gotten smarter. Data has made us simply economics has driven the necessity for us to get better, safer, and so on and so forth. But if you look at the flip side, all these assets have been producing for 20, 30, 40 years, they still have good 40, 50, 60% of the, of the hydrocarbons sitting down there when we're talking about natural gas, so. We could bring those up.
Chris Brandt:The more we bring up out of the existing wells, the less we have to impact the environment with other wells. Um, so like why is it so hard to get all that out? I mean, like, you know, you say stick the straw in there and, you know, try to pull it up, but what's, what's causing, you know, the limitation there?
Herman Artinian:We've solved a lot of the, the, the pieces of the puzzle. Simply because economics created the necessity and the means for us to be able to do that on the oil side. So we have a lot of what we call enhanced recovery for oil. We, we, uh, inject CO2, we push with water and we push the oil out. There is CO2 injection, we pump natural gas to change the viscosity to bring it up. So as the economics permit, we come up with widgets and technologies and processes to bring them up. But nothing has been done on the natural gas side up to now, up to now, we leave it for the mother nature. There's a buildup pressure. When we drill that pressure kind of brings it up and we leave the rest because it's not an obtainable. Fracking has brought this unique capability to be able to go into what we call very tight shell formations. I mean, you're cracking marble, really trying to get a little bit of the molecules within the marble. But it comes at a price of 10 12% recoverability, but today, if you remove the environmental impact out economically, you know, at 3 4 gas, it's justifiable.
Chris Brandt:The way that that gas comes up is that it's pressurized. And when you tap that well, there's a natural pressure in there that. Kind of pushes that natural gas up the pipe, right? And so can you talk a little bit about why you can't just, you know, put a big suction pump on it and, and pull the rest of it up?
Herman Artinian:There is a big difference between, uh, when we talk about liquids and gases. Uh, but one thing that's common is it always takes six to eight times more energy to suck versus to push. Right. So we figured that out with, with oil. And we're able to put pumps there. There's like maybe seven different types of pumps that we've developed that we could put, go down a mile, two miles down and start pumping the liquids up. But with gas, it becomes extremely more challenging to be able to do so because gas is compressible. I could take a volume of gas. And shrink it into this volume just by pressure, but with liquid, just like your hydraulic brakes, it doesn't change volume by pressure. Very, very little.
Chris Brandt:Well, unless you're dealing with water and trying to, as you say, suck it up a straw at a certain point, because you have to create such a low pressure. Area within that straw the the pressure drops so much that the liquids start to boil within that and you can't You know suck things up
Herman Artinian:and now you're getting into the to the very heart of the matter of the details of the gas, right? There's a lot of condensation that takes place because these are not pure methane These are a lot of what we call pentanes butanes and as you're bringing them up and you drop the pressure And the temperature drops, all these condensate, and they fall right back into the well, creating a lot more friction for the gas to, to flow up. So the dynamics get quite complex when we're talking about multi phase flow. In oil, none of that exists. It's just liquid. You're just bringing it up.
Chris Brandt:The reality of what suction is, is It's sort of counterintuitive to how we think about how it all works, right? I mean, really what we're doing is overcoming the existing atmospheric pressure on the, the thing that we're trying to suck up by reducing the amount of air pressure in that, that tube. So it's kind of a, you know, it's, it's not as simple and straightforward as our brains tend to think of it as.
Herman Artinian:One of the key points that enables us to do what we're able to do. You know, my first physics class. I was floored when, uh, my physics instructor, this is physics 101 with the auditorium of 500 people. When he said he was pushing on this wall, actually the wall was pushing back. And I'm thinking, what do you mean wall is pushing back? Right? It's, it's a cement wall you're trying to push. What's wrong with you? But it's the same exact thing. No matter if you break it down at the end, you're trying to create this vacuum on top and there's only so much you could do. And you're not really putting the energy into the gas. When you put the energy into the gas, which is what you're pushing it now, uh, uh, and that is six to eight times more efficient and significantly much more effective.
Chris Brandt:You're also talking about a mile, two miles down, which is. really deep. You're putting pumping systems into that well to create the pressure from down below. So now you're pushing it instead of trying to suck it up.
Herman Artinian:Exactly. So not only are we using about one fifth or one sixty energy, but with the same amount of energy, less, we're able to bring up two hundred, three hundred percent more. Of the natural gas when you're pumping it.
Chris Brandt:Are you are you pushing more air into the into the system to pull it up? Or is you just purely pumping from down down below to push it up?
Herman Artinian:The fundamentals of the compressor for for those who who You know everyone has used compressor right at the even when you're pumping your tire you're at some way of a compressor So at the suction you're sucking it at your as you're sucking You're really dropping the pressure at the area because you've taken some volume away And it goes through multiple stages of the machine doing work compressing the gas Increasing the pressure and at the exit you release it And now it's built up pressure maybe two, three, four times than the suction and that that just shoots it up with a unique velocity. It wants to get to high pressure, wants to get to a lower pressure as fast as it can.
Chris Brandt:By taking stuff out, you're creating a lower pressure system down there. So you, you have to probably replace that. That pressure right in the system. So even as you're pumping it up, you probably still have to kind of backfill that
Herman Artinian:no You you you you don't So because of this, uh, um two mile journey, there is a significant pressure drop So we're not releasing it to the ambient so it's going into a pipeline and that pipe does already have some pressure So what we're trying to do is Uh, create a drawdown or a suction at close as we could get at the reservoir level so we could capture as much of the gas as possible. That wasn't able to come up before artificially boost that pressure and release it. So it's cover overcomes the friction of the pipe. And the pressure and the gathering side on the on the on the surface side, we're putting unique energy right where it wants to be to augment the already existing the Mother Nature's reservoir energy. So it's very little energy. What we're inputting into the system, you know,
Chris Brandt:it sounds very simple, like, well, you're just tossing a pump down, uh, down a hole, you know, how hard could that be? But I gotta imagine it's actually an extremely complex thing because even running a power line. a mile. I mean, you know, you have high voltage long haul cables to do that here because you, you know, you, you put, you know, the voltage through at, you know, like a wall voltage, voltage through that long of a cable, there's a lot of capacitance and resistance. It's probably not going to make it all the way down that, that hole. So I got to imagine there's a lot of. Uh, interesting things you have to engineer into that pump to make it all work, right?
Herman Artinian:The devil is in the details, and we could go on every challenge that we've been through, but I could summarize it by nine years and 80 million in R& D to be commercially ready.
Chris Brandt:How does that work? How do you, you know, how do you get the electricity down there? How do you have a pump that's going to be efficient enough? I mean, how big is the dynamiter of that? Drill hole. I mean, it's not that big, right?
Herman Artinian:It's not that big at all But what we do have is a lot of length to play with two miles worth But but the diameter is only five inches. That's as big as the tool could be only five inches The industry wants it smaller now. They wanted it four inches so they could put it through even tighter clearances, but yeah, so we basically were able to over this course of nine years and Take, uh, if you have ever been around this shop compressors, these giant things that provide your air shop, even at your tire shop gas station, we shrunk it into a five inch diameter and 12 ft length. And that's what we did. And the power does come with a conventional, well, downhole conventional cable. Good thing is certain of those technologies have been developed for oil pumps, but the biggest difference with us is, is, uh, never been such a compressor shrunk down to such size and never has anything downhole, but operating at speeds of 50, 000 RPM. Wow. So because we don't have that big diameter when we shrink it, we do need to spin it faster to be able to compress at each stage the gas to get it at the. The level of pressure that we needed before we let it go.
Chris Brandt:And I gotta imagine this is not a 110 volt, you know, like water pump, like I got to, you know, in my backyard floods.
Herman Artinian:This is high voltage. So we're talking about, I think, 25, 2700 volts at the machine. And we pump much higher from the top side, so there's some voltage drops along the way, up to a mile journey. Just like your, your, uh, your grids, right? There's some losses along the way.
Chris Brandt:We've kind of hinted around the edges of how this, like, how this benefits the environment to do this. I mean, you know, I think, you know, some people will look at like, oh, well, you're, it's, you're extracting more fossil fuels, but, you know, natural gas is used in much more clean. Uses so the ability to extract that natural gas is going to lead towards less carbon in the atmosphere in general, right? And, um, and by being more efficient with these, you know, we're getting more out of each one. So it's not as.
Herman Artinian:Before I tell you exactly, uh, uh, how we're able to, uh, uh, maintain, uh, environmental sustainability via our method, I just want to clear out because, uh, uh, even I didn't know about the natural gas usage. I thought I correlated natural gas. But, uh, now that I've been in this business for some time, only 35 or so percent of natural gas is used to make electrons. The other uses where today we can't live without is fertilizer, all our food production, all the plastics. And when I'm talking about plastics, yeah, everybody's mind goes to, you know, the bags at grocery store. But your cell phones, your chips, your computers, your, your, your solar panels. I mean, this is all. ethylene based product. And then the other is your residential commercial, you know, furnaces for ceramic firing, you know, all those things. Uh, uh, so car parts, right? I mean, your dashboards, your steering wheel. So dies. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So I didn't have an appreciation for it, you know, going back 10 years ago as I do now So having that cleared out there are two to come back to your question There are two things that we're doing that's substantially valuable in cutting down emissions number one Uh, currently today, there are a lot of what we call topside compressors. These are engine, natural engine, internal combustion engine driven compressors. They're trying to suck some of the gas or push some of the gas in the pipelines. And they are not maintained appropriately. And when I mean that once a month, somebody's changing seals on this thing. They leak methane. You're looking at somewhere around, on average, I think EPA did the study, 200 to 300 tons of CO2 equivalent. per month between burning the gas and then leaks from the seals.
Chris Brandt:Well, and you're pumping methane too. Methane is a really problematic greenhouse gas, right?
Herman Artinian:Somewhere around 31 times the CO2 equivalent, right? So yeah, so it is quite impactful. That's the first one. The second one is As we can reduce the amount of unconventional drilling and fracking and what we've done is in the study, we discovered that one of our unit installed in a conventional basin in the Gulf Coast, let's say, within the United States within 8 to 10 years of its life, it produces Bye. Bye. Bye. Equal to, if not more, than a well that's drilled and fracked in a Marcellus shell. So, if every one, I could prevent one from being drilled and fracked, that's roughly about over 8 million tons. One time, one time, CO2 emissions of 8 million tons. Plus, 10 million dollars in cost of drilling, fracking, and bringing it online, and the infrastructure, plus 5 million, minimum 5 million gallons of water that's required to frack it. Wow. That's a significant shift.
Chris Brandt:Those are big numbers. Those are really big numbers. Yeah, and Absolutely. That's going to have a significant impact. How, how, how many wells are you operating in now?
Herman Artinian:We're in about two, three right now on trial basis. We're still fine too. We have been this year. Our job was to fine tune the whole process, not just the development of the tool development tool. We're way ahead of, but we are creating a new market vertical. A new application. This application didn't exist before. So there's some unique, you know, pinpoints in the process of the application with refined tuning so that the process is applicable to all wells. And we don't have to pour in engineering for each well. And we're after we're doing that. We're correlating our models and trying in different wells within Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana in our backyard, if you will, uh, so that will be all wrapped up and done this year. We've got a couple of months to go. Three more trials planned with different operators. And after that, it's all about how fast we can commercialize.
Chris Brandt:Using your, uh, your pumps, does that eliminate the need completely for all those topside compressors?
Herman Artinian:Not all of it, but definitely majority of it. You, so depending on where the well is and where the processing plant is, if the journey is long enough, you would need boosters along the way. But the ones that are within a mile radius of it, we could definitely eliminate those easily. And those, and there's a lot more of those. Then boosters because what happens is pipelines merge and it becomes a single line. So you just need one compressor versus for each well having to need a compressor.
Chris Brandt:It's funny how much fossil fuel you need to burn to, you know, extract fossil fuel. That's right. And, and then the leakage there, I got to imagine like eliminating all those compressors is going to be a big improvement.
Herman Artinian:The operating costs are going up, EPA is cracking down on these leakages, uh, uh, methane leaks at the well sites. So you've, you've seen all these maps of methane leaks and stuff from the satellites. Well, those are real, right? So, so, uh, some operators are much better than others, but there's also a cost associated with those type of an operation at 2 and 50 cents. You know, some corners have to be cut, really. That's, that's a bottom line.
Chris Brandt:The other side of this too, is you look at like, for example, what's happening in Europe and, you know, considering what's been going on in Ukraine. Uh, There's been a lot of challenges around getting enough heating fuel for Europe because of, you know, restrictions and access to, you know, those, those natural gas resources, right? Um, so I got to imagine, you know, like one of the things that I think is really interesting about this is by making more efficient use out of the resources that we already have. You know, I, I, I see that as eliminating the need to import and be so dependent on external sources of natural gas. Um, and, and that, that can, you know, I mean, energy seems to drive conflict in the world. So, like. Having, you know, easier sources, um, to get them from, I got to imagine, is going to have an impact on that as well, right?
Herman Artinian:Absolutely. I mean, this thing has been brewing for some time. Uh, it's just that, unfortunately, this crisis with Russia and Ukraine have brought it to the surface and, and really made everyone, uh, have to deal with it. The natural gas. As, uh, the industries and as well as the nations have been thinking they, uh, um, Already had mapped out that we need a lot more natural gas By the way, it's the cleanest out of all fossil fuels and right there's so much uses for it Just from forget about energy just population growth and and developing nations want their widgets the you know Their homes their plastics their cars their phones. We need a lot more of it to be able to as a raw material To bring these up now in U. S. We're quite fortunate. You know, we have a lot of these natural resources, but other countries don't. So it becomes truly, uh, environmental crisis or or more importantly, the energy crisis within the nations that they need to secure this energy and and we could all agree we need energy. But we end up really disagreeing how we're going to get this energy really fast, right? So, so...
Chris Brandt:Fusion's right around the corner, right? We're going to all have fusion generators in our basements.
Herman Artinian:Next week. Love it. I mean, the closest is nuclear, and they're looking at two decades before... It becomes viable and available.
Chris Brandt:It takes, yeah, I mean, and the challenge around nuclear isn't really even the technology of it necessarily so much as it is the political side of it and the regulatory side of it, just trying to get people comfortable with like, Hey, there's going to be a nuclear reactor in your backyard.
Herman Artinian:But at the end of the day, it's a strange loop, right? I mean, I need votes and I need votes from my constituents and they're saying they don't want a nuclear. So, yeah. I'm gonna see, I mean, look what Germany did. They shut down their nuclear plants. They're the largest coal burning nation to date on the top five. Really?
Chris Brandt:I didn't know that. I, because I knew they were clean energy for a long time.
Herman Artinian:U. S. is the largest exporter of coal because we've reduced our use. We're exporting coal to Germany. Yeah, that's crazy. It makes no sense. Things sometimes make no sense. But, you know, that's what happens when politics get involved. Where
Chris Brandt:does this go from here? Because I know, you know, we, we had some conversation about like the potential for some of the other things you could do with this, but I mean, like what, what are some of the other ways you can utilize this technology?
Herman Artinian:So our initial, you know, target market, which is going to keep us plenty busy, both in the United States and overseas is to be able to extract more natural gas and energy in, in, in economically and environmental sustainable way. And I think that's are going to be our bread and butter. Um, we are eyeing the application of sequestration. So, uh, once all these carbon capture, um, technologies or applications mature up, we have to do something with the carbon. Now, personally speaking, I rather do something with the carbon and use it properly if we can, but it looks like there's limited uses or technologies are not there yet. So one, uh, thought process is we're gonna yeah. Put it underground, hence sequestration. So, and there are limits and technical challenges associated with that as well. But regardless, we see ourselves positioned really well. So when that trend does start and the application start, we could definitely with our compressors, run them in reverse, unable to pack a lot more carbons, you know, existing. Uh, space, if you will, down whole than with any other method, whatever they're able to do with the other method, we could do twice as much storage. So, you know, that saves significant on the economical scalability infrastructure and so on and so forth. They need to put in place.
Chris Brandt:You know, you said something earlier to that. I kind of let slip, but I caught my attention the temperature. down there. You said it was over 110 degrees?
Herman Artinian:The temperature, typical temperatures are in Fahrenheit, somewhere around 200 to 240 degrees.
Chris Brandt:200, so I mean you're above boiling. So you're talking about 104 Celsius more than Fahrenheit. That's got to make some interesting and unique challenges as well, because You know, when you heat, I mean, like to pump stuff down there, it's going to expand as it heats and things like that. That's got to, that's got to be an interesting challenge.
Herman Artinian:On the top level, like I always say, we could all agree. But as you get down to how we're going to do this and the details and these little challenges all of a sudden, where the guy, somebody will solve it. Well, some of them are, you know, the boundary of what. physically possible or limitations that we're just gonna have to live with, right? I mean it's so much we could do.
Chris Brandt:Just going back to the pump you've designed and some of the weird challenges you have to face, you know, like operating a pump at that temperature, you know, my stuff Shuts down pretty quickly when I get close to, you know, that kind of, uh, temperature. I mean, that's gotta be an interesting challenge as well.
Herman Artinian:No one spent nine years than 80 million on your pump. That's the difference.
Chris Brandt:Yeah, that's true. I mean, I need one of your pumps, although 12 feet, 12 feet tall might be a little bit much.
Herman Artinian:No, it does create its unique challenges. Absolutely. But, but you know what? I always believed in innovation. I always believed in technology. When there are, when there are issues, technology, innovation will solve it. The question is to make it sustainable. It needs to be profitable for it to be sustaining. You can do everything for one off government grants, this and that. But in order for something to be sustainable. It needs to be profitable. And that's something that we focused on from day one.
Chris Brandt:I mean, it seems like if you're eliminating all these compressors, you're getting more efficiency out of the wells. So you don't have to, I mean, I got to imagine starting up a well is wildly expensive. You know, I, you're probably taking a lot of the, a lot of the costs out of this, right?
Herman Artinian:Yeah. Like I mentioned, forget about the emission and the amount of water you need and so on and so forth. Just pure cash of 10 million you need to drill, frack, put in the pipe, put in the topside infrastructure for this new well to come online.
Chris Brandt:That's real cash. I'd be curious to see your ROI studies and things like that because that's got to be really an interesting, interesting look.
Herman Artinian:With the operator, with our business model, it's two to three months for the operator. Really? We're not selling equipment. We are really, uh, we're, we're owning our own equipment and we're being responsible for our equipment. We're the sole point of contact for the client. We are doing the job that needs to be done, which is produce what has been unproducible up to date. If anything breaks down, it's our, it's on our nickel. So we remove both capital and, and human resources from the equation from the operator side. That's why the paybacks are amazing. That's why. Uh, we want this to, to spread like wildfires, and it, and it makes environmentally so much sense.
Chris Brandt:Yeah, well, be careful about talking about wildfires, because...
Herman Artinian:I know, we're just thinking about that when you said it as a horrible analogy.
Chris Brandt:I take that back. But, but, yeah, no, no, I, it's, we're, it'll be selling like hotcakes. There you go. Not that anybody knows what hotcakes are anymore, but not anymore. So if they want to get in on this, where, where should they go to find you guys and get in touch with you?
Herman Artinian:We're, uh, now located in Southern California. We have offices in Houston. We, uh, looks like we're going to be opening up satellite offices in the regions where our clients are. So it's upwing energy. So we are going to start, this is one of those things. We're not going to be putting a lot of marketing behind it because each of these operators. You know, they have 200 to 300 wells. You know, once we've demonstrated their asset that what we're able to do and how, uh, um, easy it is for the operator, it's a no brainer to, to give us, you know, five wells, 10 wells and a hundred wells, you know, that's how it moves. So, so we can within end of 2024, you're going to see it in a lot of the assets as fast as we could probably produce and deploy
Chris Brandt:and they can find you on the online at, on, uh, upwingenergy.com.
Herman Artinian:Absolutely, yes. Upeingenergy. com is where we're at.
Chris Brandt:I'll put it in the show notes and, uh, you know, we'll, hopefully people will, uh, get in touch with you and, and explore this.
Herman Artinian:Yeah, we'd love to talk to the operators, explain to them how it works. Show them the demonstrations. I mean our facilities are always open. We always got something funky going on and operating We even drilled our own well in here just to be able to uh, uh, mimic and correlate our models with what's going on So yeah, it's tap anything. No, we were really afraid that we're going to tap into some power lines and water lines But thank god that wasn't the case
Chris Brandt:Yeah, well what's that call? Uh call julie before you drill or what? My wife's name is Julie too, so I got, you know, I gotta call you before I dig a hole in the backyard
Herman Artinian:So I think she wants you to call her before you do anything
Chris Brandt:Yeah, she definitely wants me to call her before I start digging holes in the backyard But what crazy idea have you got now? Well, that's awesome. I I mean, you know, like I said at the beginning I think it's You know, like, sometimes, you know, everybody wants to solve the climate problem and eliminate all CO2 emissions. But, you know, I think you, one of the things that you point out is that, you know, fossil fuels are used for a lot of things from food production to clothing to, you know, plastics and, you know, all sorts of other things. And so it's not a simple thing to just, you Get rid of and and and making these these kind of more significant, but you know, incremental but significant improvements in the way that we're producing this stuff can really buy us time, you know, as we're going forward. And I think it's it's stuff that's really important.
Herman Artinian:It shouldn't be discounted. Look, I always say, uh, Um, You know, this is a very complex problem, right? Everybody who thinks that we're gonna be able to solve our energy issues with one or two technologies or whatnot, uh, there is no silver bullet in this thing that we're going to need a mix and blend of everything. And for those who are really bought into the camp that, Oh my God, this X, Y, Z is going to take care of all my problems. It's a wishful thinking. All we're doing is pushing the problem, uh, further down the road. So it's going to take. It's complex. It's going to take every little bit of everything to make this work and a lot of innovation along the way.
Chris Brandt:Yeah. Complex problems are hard to solve and it takes work and you know, thank you for doing the work to solve some of these problems.
Herman Artinian:Thank you so much
Chris Brandt:for being on. Thank you so much for joining today. I, it was, I love talking about this stuff and you know, we could, we could go on and talk about all the weird nuances of, you know, what, what it's like, you know, my two miles underground and.
Herman Artinian:Yeah. You make it fun and you touch the right questions and you're able to ask me, put me on the spot a couple of times. I appreciate that.
Chris Brandt:Oh, thanks. Well, hopefully not too bad on the spot, but, uh, uh, thanks so much for being on. Really appreciate it. Um, if you want to find out more, go to upwingenergy. com and check it out. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for watching. I'd love to hear from you in the comments. And if you could, please give us a like, think about subscribing and I will see you in the next one.