ESG, Environmental, Social, and corporate governance, is a term that keeps getting discussed in the C-Suite and the corporate boardrooms, but how does it work and what are the impacts to business?
Growing out of the UN's corporate social responsibility initiative over the last 20 years, it has grown to represent more that $30 trillion in managed assets. Some have argued that the initiative has failed to truly impact the cost of capital for irresponsible firms, but this has not stalled the initiatives to push companies towards social responsibility.
Today we have with us Ricky Marton, Co-Founder and CEO of Koru which provides a data-driven platform for connecting companies with impact organizations for improved corporate sustainability, ESG and social impact initiatives.
So let's talk with Ricky about why this movement is so important.
Welcome Ricky
http://koru.global
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FUTR.tv focuses on startups, innovation, culture and the business of emerging tech with weekly podcasts featuring Chris Brandt and Sandesh Patel talking with Industry leaders and deep thinkers.
Occasionally we share links to products we use. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases on Amazon.
ESG, Environmental, Social, and corporate governance, is a term that keeps getting discussed in the C-Suite and the corporate boardrooms, but how does it work and what are the impacts to business?
Growing out of the UN's corporate social responsibility initiative over the last 20 years, it has grown to represent more that $30 trillion in managed assets. Some have argued that the initiative has failed to truly impact the cost of capital for irresponsible firms, but this has not stalled the initiatives to push companies towards social responsibility.
Today we have with us Ricky Marton, Co-Founder and CEO of Koru which provides a data-driven platform for connecting companies with impact organizations for improved corporate sustainability, ESG and social impact initiatives.
So let's talk with Ricky about why this movement is so important.
Welcome Ricky
http://koru.global
Click Here to Subscribe:
FUTR.tv focuses on startups, innovation, culture and the business of emerging tech with weekly podcasts featuring Chris Brandt and Sandesh Patel talking with Industry leaders and deep thinkers.
Occasionally we share links to products we use. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases on Amazon.
ESG, Environmental, Social, and Corporate Governance, is a term that keeps getting discussed in the C suite and in the corporate boardrooms, but how does it work and what are the impacts to the business? Stay tuned. Hey everybody, this is Chris Brandt here with another future podcast. Growing out of the UN's Corporate Social Responsibility Initiative over the last 20 years, ESG has grown to represent more than 30 trillion in managed assets. And while some have argued that the initiative has failed to truly impact the cost of capital for irresponsible firms, this has not stalled the initiatives to push companies towards social responsibility. Today we have with us Ricky Martin, co founder and CEO of Koru, which provides a data driven platform for connecting companies with impact organizations for improved corporate sustainability, ESG and social impact initiatives. So let's talk with Ricky about why this movement is so very important. Welcome, Ricky.
Ricky Marton:Hey, Chris. Great to be here.
Chris Brandt:I think this is a really interesting, uh, topic because, um, I hear talked about all the time, you know, I, I have people like, you know, but so often the folks in companies really don't understand what it is, what the scope of it is, why it's important, or even like how to implement, how to monitor, how to, you know, how to make it all go right. So could you, can we just start with like, Tell me a little bit about ESG. And I know ESG is, has at times been a favored and, you know, fallen out of favor as a term for what all this is. Um, but if you could just like, kind of give me a little bit of, uh, uh, intro into what ESG is, that'd be great.
Ricky Marton:Yeah, certainly, Chris. And, and fully acknowledging the fact that it has kind of ebb and flowed over the years, but ESG in itself, like you mentioned, it stands for environmental, social and governance. So a lot of this corporate. Conversations around ESG and doing good kind of falls into the same umbrella. Um, ESG in itself, though, it began way back in the 1960s, believe it or not, as a way for, um, individual analysts and firms to look at how they're socially responsible with their investing. And so this allowed them to exclude certain stocks or industries that Had certain activities related to it, such as, you know, tobacco production or involvement in the South African apartheid regimen. And what this did allow investors to take a look at the portfolio and say, we don't want to focus solely on profits, but ESG is this lens to look through to help us have these more sound decisions. And so what that's evolved to today is this practice where corporations of all sizes are adopting these ESG principles to make sure that they are actually going to be more transparent about who they're working with their supply chains, making sure their business practices or the products that they create don't have any negative ramifications. And ESG has been this way for them to disclose all this information. And so it goes in the terms of corporate social responsibility, sustainability, social impact, all these terms kind of encapsulate it. But ESG is this blanket term that really encapsulates the entire industry at large.
Chris Brandt:And I've got to think that any company that is thinking or following ESG guidelines Is going to be a more mature company, probably a company that's going to be better run and, uh, you know, probably be a better investment just for the sake of being able to recognize the importance of it and, and actually implement it beyond all the other things that ESG brings, I would imagine.
Ricky Marton:Yeah, yeah, certainly. And that's kind of like the conflicting areas that you hear where oftentimes, um, ESG is this practice. It's kind of like a catch all be all where it's, you know, we plant trees to offset this or that, or we look at, you know, carbon emissions and we track our scope one, two and three. But I think you hit the nail on the head there where typically if companies are mature enough to acknowledge this ESG movement or this, this pressure from these different sources, allowing them to be more transparent and think about this from a business standpoint, that's the companies that really thrive. And the issue I think that comes with this space is that there's this term greenwashing, there's pinkwashing, bluewashing, all these different terms for companies that aren't actually following through and really integrating these practices into their business. And that's when like the difficulty comes because the consumer or an employee or investor sometimes have a hard time distinguishing from the two. But the ones that have really ensured that they're, you know, cracking on Cracking down on workplace discrimination or ensuring that the practice that they are implementing are curbing carbon emissions versus the opposite. Those are the ones that are actually going to hold out and thrive, not only the short term, but the long term as well.
Chris Brandt:Well, and I think that, um, you know, in the, in, in the context of, you know, so. People I've talked to, you know, one of the things I mentioned is that, you know, some of these things that you're doing now are going to be required of you from, you know, regulatory or compliance perspective down the road and getting a head start and getting there is going to leave your company in a better position. To be prepared for when those those types of things do hit and we see all these movements and, you know, like from, you know, all the, you know, corporate governance things that have happened in Europe and, you know, in the United States, you know, some things in California and different states, you know, have some of these initiatives. And, and, and quite frankly, it's caught some companies kind of flat footed, um, when that, when that happens. So you can see how it can benefit some, some companies to be prepared.
Ricky Marton:To touch on that a little bit, I think it comes back to like systemic change and this transformational approach is completely necessary. So these companies, large and small, whether they've experienced it or not, they are soon going to be experiencing and succumbing to these public pressures and whether they're ready for them, whether they're, you know, running around scrambling, like they're inevitably going to come and the stats are in for this, like. Especially as millennials, Gen Z, Gen X, are starting to put these, you know, this pressure for companies to become more transparent and open minded, the current practices and policies that these companies employ, whether it's plundering and polluting the planet or destroying the human capital assets of the organizations or, you know, fracturing, um, community development organizations and programs. They're not going to be able to do this for much longer. And KORU, for example, like we don't declare ourselves as an ESG or sustainability company per se, but what it stands for is this foundation of the companies actually have to start doing good. They have to start caring about who they're interacting with and what the, not only the byproducts of their products are, but down the line, what is this actually trickle down to? And like you said, if they're ready for it, wonderful, they're going to be able to thrive. But the companies that are actually advocates and leading in the corporate sustainability space are the ones that actually felt the heat a little bit early on, ironically enough, and they're the ones blazing the trail, excuse me, blazing the path forward with this practice.
Chris Brandt:You mentioned your company's name, Koru, could you, could you talk a little bit about what that word means?
Ricky Marton:Yeah, certainly. So, um, I won't go too far in this direction, but Koh Ruin itself is a term used by the Maori people from New Zealand. And it represents this uncurling fern that, like, shows progress, growth, and it's a simple spiral. So that's kind of where our logo came from. And I actually had the ability to travel to New Zealand and I did some work over there. They have this incredible movement where they declared their national river a citizen of their country. And what that allowed for them to do is actually have these bylaws in place that protect the river on a level that's the same to their people. And so companies that were polluting it, other organizations that were taking and, you know, like Planting farms instead of, you know, destroying the agriculture that was already there, they're actually to hold legal lawsuits with it. And that sentiment was just extremely beautiful for me, but also it's had tremendous results. And so KORU itself is a way for us to represent this, you know, cool, neat, innovative movement, but at the same time, like progress. growth development are all integral to what that word means. And we try to put that forth in our work as well.
Chris Brandt:That's really amazing because, you know, here in America, I think the only thing we give personhood status to is corporations.
Ricky Marton:But the irony is there, isn't it, Chris?
Chris Brandt:Yes, it certainly is. It certainly is. How does a company get started in this? I mean, like, you know, you've got a company and you're recognizing some of the movements out there. You're seeing some of the pressure and you're just like, I don't, I don't even know what to do here. How does a company get started in this?
Ricky Marton:Yeah, it's a great question, Chris, and one that we feel it all the time. And I think it's, um, you know, recipe of looking at where you are as a business, what sort of company you are, how large you are, where you have geographic ties. All these different factors go into how you can have a successful ESG sustainability initiative. But I think the most important thing is what I tell companies on a regular basis. It's a bite size. endeavor. So a lot of large companies, you know, fortune 500 Fortune 100, they're regularly publishing 100 150 page sustainability reports really speaking about every little intricate data set that they have are able to collect. And that could be really intimidating, especially for small and medium businesses because they look at this and they're overwhelmed by it. But what we try to do is encourage companies that are recognizing this. Like, first of all, Great. That's step one. You need to start to acknowledge these movements that are taking place. But the secondary piece is, you know, where are you as a business and where do you want to go in the near term? And how do you create little bite sized pieces and goals to allow you to get there? So that could be as simple as ensuring that you know, your facility is lead certified or talking to your employees about what they what they care about and how you can come Better that serve them in the workplace and by taking that one step at a time approach, it's able to allow you to accumulate these different data points and then start build out your practices internally for what's best for your business. And that last part, I think, is what's really important. The customized nature, this ESG sustainability space. There's no one size fits all. There's no template that will guide you from A to Z in a successful fashion. And I think that in itself is really intimidating for businesses. But what you have to do is acknowledge that your business is unique. How do you use your business direction and your company's assets, whatever you have working for you to work for this. And at that point in time, if you can integrate that within the foundations of your business, that's when you'll have some really successful outcomes.
Chris Brandt:And I know this ties into like AI as well, and you know, one of the things that we talk about on the in the AI front a lot is just the idea of having an ethics review board or, you know, some sort of, you know, corporate governance in place around it. Um, is that sort of the same initiative, maybe even the same group of people, um, that, you know, you need to put together to, you know, start to tackle this ESG piece?
Ricky Marton:I'd say so. And I love how you touched on in the comparison there. My, my master's research, I don't even know if we cover this was on AI and ethical emerging technologies. And the same concept goes into place. And the issue with it AI in general, but also sustainability is oftentimes it's seen as a short check the box, we should probably do this, but it doesn't actually drive revenues doesn't drive change doesn't allow us to push out products any quicker. And what we're trying to do is shift the rhetoric around that whole concept where Yeah. You know, year after year and more so now than ever, the reports are coming in that companies that do adopt sustainable business practices truly adopt them, not just piecemeal. We're donating here. We're trying to plant a tree, though companies that actually do have better financial returns. They're able to create innovative products. They're able to make their employees happy. So, you know, customer attention is more focused on them versus their competitor. And so it's really important to start early and ask the right stakeholders and get the right stakeholders in the room. But the same time, you have to recognize that if you're a medium company, the most important thing is to make profits. You need to have products that are high quality. You need to have your services that are satisfying the needs of your customers. And we'll talk about more of this later, the whole profit purpose and how they link together, but I think the involvement from lots of different voices to ensure that you're asking the right questions from day one to make sure that you're satisfying the right needs that are right for your business at the current day and the current juncture is really important. And pulling that synergy between AI ethics and, you know, saying, you know, what, why do we need this? Or we can kick this can down the road. It's, it's, it's no longer that, that time. And so I think we need to start realizing that this moment to start adopting these practices is yesterday. And the sooner that you can begin to do that, even if, you know, very, very piecemeal is going to help you out in the long run.
Chris Brandt:Yeah. Well, well, let's talk about, you know, product profit and purpose. Um, you know, it, it does sound, I mean, like, I think there's, uh, a lot of evidence to say that if you can, you know, tie all those things together and be successful on all those fronts, you're going to have a very successful company. I mean, could you speak to
Ricky Marton:Yeah, I agree with you there, Chris, and easier said than done. Everyone listening is probably like, yeah, of course, I'd love to tie them all together. Uh, certainly, but where's the roadmap? And I'll say enter Koru, but, um, silent pits there. The, the concept of product profit and purpose is something that I really resonate in. And it's something that it's really integral to our business. And there's a lot of companies out there. Some of our competitors, I won't name any specific names, but they're under this pretense that. You know, you should be donating an X amount of your revenues. You should be supporting certain community programs. You should allow your employees to give back to certain areas. And what I believe is a hundred percent. That's fantastic. It's great. They shouldn't stop doing that. But at the end of the day, we operate in a world that business and capitalism is what driving this factor, and you need to have high quality products at the end of the day, because no matter how altruistic or philanthropic your business is. If your product isn't what's demanded by customers, your business is going to fail. And so we build on this aspect, if you think of like a triangle or a pyramid, where we have the basis of quality products and profit as a means to attain this meaningful, acknowledging purpose, that acknowledging the fact that you can only reach this pinnacle with other two in place. And so our core philosophy and kind of what we're joking about is like when you When you have an excellent product, you achieve profitability and purpose and you have them work in synergy. That's when you create these extremely, you know, dynamic or even really successful outcomes to actually put yourself ahead of the competitor, more or less.
Chris Brandt:What are the first steps? Like when you come into a company and you, you know, they're saying like, God, we're really struggling to figure out ESG. And you know, we want to get involved, but we just don't even know, you know, where to start and how to get it going. Like what, how, how do
Ricky Marton:you engage them? The first thing we do is it's like a very manual, Hey, we'd love to work with you, support you on your goals. And so we don't want to put this, you know, blanket technology on what you're doing and say here, you know, follow these steps, you'll be great and wonderful. Um, but the first thing we do is we do a quick And analytic piece on this company. And so we built out this built out this tech that's really amazing because it allows you to put in just your simply website and using a few data points on our end, but actually is able to spit out an assessment that looks at, you know, what's material to your business where you operate in certain sustainable development goals that you should be supporting and then some creative ideas to help push this forward. And that's intended to be kind of the road map to step one to say, Hey, this is where you are as a business. This is what we'd like you to focus on. And then the next stage in that is actually putting action behind this. And so action is one of the keywords that we really put a lot of emphasis on because going back to the large, you know, 100, 150 pages, sustainability reports, they're, they're great. They have a lot of merit to them. They're able to, you know, be used for tracking.
Chris Brandt:500 page reports. You have to cut down a lot of trees.
Ricky Marton:That's, that's certainly true. Um, and, and. In that case too, it's, we asked the question, you know, what does that actually generate? And there's, there's purpose. I'll never say anything about about them, but from our perspective, we want you to take this quick analysis.
Chris Brandt:We call it our snapshot analysis and then pair it with strategic partnerships. And so the first step is knowing where you are. The second step is. What can we do to actually change this? Or what can we do to create something impactful and meaningful that is directly aligned with your business? And that last piece right there, there's, there's crazy stats out there about, you know, 47 percent of partnerships in general fail or all these different areas of why different relationships. don't work. And a lot of it comes down to the shared values, missions driven, you know, goals and things like that. And that's what we really put a lot of emphasis on. What kind of companies are we talking about? I mean, is this all supply chain companies? Is this like hiring for, I mean, like, I got to imagine you really cover the gamut, you know, how do you, how do you match these people?
Ricky Marton:We cover Companies from all industries, all sizes. We've worked with, you know, 2 billion publicly traded companies, all the way to mom and pop, small gyms and local plastic printing companies. And our blanket answer is like, we can support these in a variety of ways. And of course the 2 billion company is going to have a lot more comprehensive, you know, giving strategies and investment strategies than the small mom and pop shop. But our analysis is, is the same way. And so it's based off your industry, based off what, you know, sectors you work in based off your geographic ties. And this could be anything from supply chains where you have physical employees and then also some other little variables of, you know, like what products you produce, who is your end user, you know, what do your employees care about? This all goes into our system and allows us to kind of paint this comprehensive digital profile of you as a business. And so this can range from, you know, like who you are, what you've done in the past, perhaps, you know, what your sustainability goals should be, what your product differentiator is and how you want to grow from there. And then we help you find the partners that actually push forward with this. And that's, I think when the really fun comes in, because we allow you to support, you know, local charity or some giving initiative that's directly tied with your business, but we also let you find those innovative, unique partnerships that you otherwise wouldn't have found. So a good example is we were working with this food and beverage manufacturing company, and they're really interested in having a new refrigeration technology. And so there's a couple of startups working with innovative cooling tech that. Doesn't use any water consumption and is able to have the same output as a normal refrigerator, but it's eco friendly, requires less energy. And by adopting those practices, partnering with them, they're able to reduce their overhead from the costs required for energy and water use while also having kind of a green practice and being on the leading edge of a new innovative technology. And that in itself is like the crumb of the crop because. Those partnerships are what really make their business succeed further. And going back to the innovative product, generate more profits, and then having the purpose tied into it is something that's really impactful for them, not only in the short term, but in the longterm as well.
Chris Brandt:Yeah. I mean, that's really interesting. Cause like you and that product you mentioned, I can see that being a really strong strategic differentiator for a company. I mean, so it's, it's, um. You know, like you said, product, profit, purpose, right? Um, you know, and it's funny because, I mean, if you look back in history, right? I mean, we're in kind of this new gilded age, I think, right now. And you look it back, it's sort of the old robber barons and things like that. They had this sort of sense of noblesse oblige, right? You know, that's what created the Chicago lakefront. You know, just the donation of all that land to be used for public purpose and things like that. And there was this sort of sense that You know, you had to, you know, give back to the communities that are buying your products because you have to sustain those communities or there'd be nobody to buy your products. But it seems like that sense of noblesse oblige has completely gone out of the world, you know, and it seems like it's got to have some, you know, like, you know, like a little kick in the pants to make people kind of go through through these efforts. Um, you know, I, I, I, is it. I mean, you know, is that the only way people are coming to this, I guess? And, you know, like I know there's like firms out there that are, are, are analyzing these things too. You know, is it, is it just because they're being gilted into it or do you see any sense of like, corporate purpose ever emerging?
Ricky Marton:It's a good one, Chris, for sure. And I love that example. Um, and I think my, my quick answer to that one is, is it depends, uh, oftentimes there's these, you know, I go back to these public pressures and this is from everything from investors to consumers to employees. And they're putting these pressures on these companies to do good, essentially to, you know, do better for the planet, to ensure that supply chains are more transparent and things like that. And our answer to this is like, we don't believe that you should purely support these innovative products that maybe have sustainable impact, but you should have what we call, you know, balanced and diversified impact portfolio. And so one, one lovely quote by someone, the woman we were working with is like, the key is to move this strategic philanthropy to partnerships that can actually make a difference and drive business outcomes. And that might be supporting a local nonprofit that might be helping some research institution get off the ground with some initial funding, but also might be an investment or a grant in a really innovative product. And so us and what really distinguishes us and this is what my, you know, PhD research and really driving my thesis home is you need to have this balance between this altruism, philanthropy and corporate, you know, responsibilities terms of the giving side of things, but it all needs to be grounded in the umbrella of what's good for the business. And I think that's oftentimes why these relationship fails or the results aren't ideal as it's, it's, in terms of what they're looking for is because it's piecemeal, it's short term, it's check the box and it's not actually grounded in, you know, like. Are we trying to rebuild this lake because we want to expand to this new market? And because we realized that we're taking some space away from the local communities, or is it, we are a beverage company and we want to support the local animal shelter. It just doesn't have the alignment there. And so I think having those questions asked initially are really important. And then looking at, you know, what is strategic from not only a short term perspective, but a long term perspective and how we're going to grow into that is, is what's really pivotal for these businesses to realize from as early as possible.
Chris Brandt:You mentioned the term greenwashing. I think people get very skeptical of ESG efforts because they seem a lot of these greenwashing efforts where it's not, it doesn't really look sincere. It looks, you know, uh, just as a purely marketing initiative where like they'll, you know, rather than donating, you know, the money to the local community that would, you know, be able to utilize that they run an ad campaign that, you know, is. 10 times as expensive as the actual effort they're making to promote the effort they're making. And it just seems, you know, that sort of insincerity out of it. I think, I think there's just a general lack of faith and trust in corporations now. And I think people are very skeptical of anything they do that purports to have any good.
Ricky Marton:I completely agree. And that's something that we see all the time in our industry. You know, we, we talk to investors or these clients and they're like, we're not gonna put money behind this because there's this skepticism that our customers are showing. And I think what the issue is, is that, you know, for like the black and white of financial benefits, profits did, are you making profits or not? Good? Is a very arbitrary term. Are we doing good? Are we having a positive impact? Are we having, you know, social values intricately integrated? With our services, and this is something that, you know, research has tried to cover, but it's, it's a very gray area and what our system has created is a lot of these products that, you know, maybe have not the best intentions in mind are recognizing the benefit of the screen movement of this ESG movement and they create their own label or they create some little icon that says we're X certified. And there's not a really strict standard, at least that's known very well to the public to be able to look at that and say, this is a legitimate one versus not. And that's something that we're trying to work on is like, eventually, maybe there's a co re stamp of approval that shows that all brands are like this. But the issue is that every. Industry, every kind of brand line has this differentiator. So it's like a food and beverage company will try to have their stamp of approval. A t shirt company will have their stamp of approval and the differing factors between the two make it really difficult for an everyday consumer to be able to recognize that. And I mean, even myself, I'm guilty of this. I'm in a store looking at different products and I see I'm the one that takes pictures and say, you know, what is Rainforest Alliance mean? Or what does this mean? And I'm looking at like the actual reasons behind it. And some customers are just not that level of detail. And they'll either look at it and say, this is great and wonderful. I want to buy it. I'm doing good. Knowing that they maybe donate a penny from every million dollars that they make and saying they're giving back or their company that's doing really impactful things, but haven't incorporated it well within their branding and marketing. And so then they kind of fizzle out from that perspective. And so there's a few, you know, really good companies out there that I think are tying them together and this comes back to they have a really good product and they're able to push forward their story and their purpose really well and integrating that together. But I still think the whole industry and our society at large needs that next step, which allows a little bit more pressure to be put on these companies that are doing this. Unethically, for lack of a better term, um, and just trying to capitalize on the marketing needs from it. And so that's something that we're working forward, and I think there's gonna be a lot of insight and resources that come out about how to recognize these brands that are actually doing good versus not. There's already some, you know, scanning apps that you can put on your phone to say, Hey, what does this mean? What does this label mean? Um, and so like these innovations are coming to the space, and it's just gonna take a little bit longer for them to get adopted in full practices, I
Chris Brandt:believe. They're not monoliths either. And, and like, you know, you know, around, uh, you know, pride, you know, month, you see all these companies putting the pride flag on their products, but at the same time, you know, like supporting, you know, political candidates that are diametrically opposed to those values. You see, um, a company like Apple, for example, you know, they've got all these great, you know, we're going to be net zero and we're going to be this and we're going to be that. And, but you know, I mean, there's still exploitive. Labor practices going on all over the world, and those are very difficult to to contain. And, you know, I'm not saying they're not trying to do the right thing, but sometimes it's very difficult. And the message gets out in front of the practical application of a lot of those things. And, you know, I think that's also what gets it all very confused. And it's sort of like, You know, and sometimes it, you know, the old, you know, uh, epic Titus, you know, like a perfect is the enemy of good kind of thing. Um, you know, it is, it is true. I mean, you, you, you do sometimes have to look at it and say like, you know, net. There's a net positive here, even if they're not all the way there. We shouldn't throw away the good that these programs bring just in the quest for perfection, right?
Ricky Marton:There's a lot of discussions going on with that very topic. You know, just last night I was having a discussion with this really great tech company. They're in climate tech. They're working on carbon sequestration, really innovative technique here. And they are in relationships with a lot of these like oil and gas companies, because they're trying to make their product line and they're trying to find the next. Era of these businesses and oil and gas, for example, is, you know, you hear esg destroying the planet. They all kind of are synonymous in people's minds But you have to remember that a lot of these professionals they're actually trying to do the right thing They've created this massive massive industry and are recognizing the damage that has caused to our earth and they are trying to do good for it And so that's when the difficulties come with ESG and sustainability, and I'll bring up the example, um, Larry Fink with BlackRock, one of the, you know, largest, um, proponents of ESG movement. Recently, he actually stopped using the term because it's become too politicized. And I think that's what's happened in the U. S. specifically is like this polarization that's occurring where ESG terminology sustainability has become this like, Way to challenge against each other when recognizing that, you know, maybe the VPs of the shells of the world are doing things. Whereas, you know, the electric car companies maybe are just, you know, pushing forward a new product and it makes it impossible to, to really distinguish between the two. And there's no clear cut answer for it. You don't know if a business is doing this because they had some, you know, oil spill and they're trying to make up for it. Or if they're actually saying. We recognize we're in a position of power here, and we need to do something to create a better future. And that's the difficulty that I deal with. And that's something about, you know, transparency and ensuring that you're being really honest. And, but at the end of the day, it's a difficult one to discern the two. And I think it's going to continue to go that direction. But as long as we have these pressures being put by these different individuals and different stages of their life, whether it's, you know, their employee at the very base, or Someone coming into power for the first time, that's the change that's going to slowly start to push the ball over the hilltop.
Chris Brandt:I believe you mentioned Blackrock, and I think that's a really interesting example that they're, you know, pushing ESG. I mean, Blackrock has had a notably controversial history, right? I mean, they've had some really, um. pressure put on them, you know, for some of the things that they've done. And, and, and, you know, it's an interesting thing, you know, like I, I know that, you know, like last year there was a protest where they were, you know, shutting down, you know, and I think it was in France, they were shutting down BlackRock offices all over the country. And, you know, you look at that and, and, you know, like it, it comes to the question of like, You know, is this company, can this company turn itself around and really adopt these principles? Or is it something that, or do, do these companies need to go away? You know, like what, what, what there's a, there's a line somewhere, you know, I'm, I'm sure it's a very wide and gray line of like, you know, what can happen. Um, But it's that's where I think that skepticism from people comes in because it's like, okay, well, here's a company that, you know, a sensibly is, you know, not always invested in the most, you know, ethical things. But is leading the CSG movement. Is that a good thing?
Ricky Marton:Yeah. So to touch that a little bit, it makes me think of a couple of different angles and I'll, I'll be careful of the rabbit holes. I can go down in this conversation. Um, but, but there there's companies that I believe are really doing well. They're, they're paving the way forward. They're creating this like change in their product line. They're ensuring that they're actually hitting these goals. And I think it all comes down to the word transparency that I've used multiple times. for. So, so Koru, for example, we get asked from time to time, you know, if one of these big, um, you know, uh, let's say industry leaders such as Exxon or mobile come to us and say, we want to work with you, would you work with them? And sometimes they're like, you can't help them out. They're, they're the evil, they're destroying the world. Right. And my philosophy is, is these companies have the opportunity, they have the vessel, they have the means, the platform to do good, to push forward the industry in a sustainable way. Okay. And we would welcome them to work with us, however, what we built into our platform is the ability to really hone down and peel the layers back of the onion and allow them not to greenwash. So we tied direct quantifiable measures to all of our programs and what these organizations and companies can get involved with. And we have thresholds in place where, if a company is doing this purely for the greenwashing, the marketing purposes, we can. Put the microscope on them and say, this is not intended for how we want to use our services. And then we will kick them off the platform to some degree. And this allows for the companies to recognize that they are in need to do good and actually like follow through with their objectives. And then we can put it to the public sphere saying like, Hey, this is actually what they're doing. They're actually creating this change. They're actually incorporating these. Practices in their business versus just saying that they are or, you know, supporting some local charity just to kind of make up for some corporate bad that they perhaps did in the past. And I think that's what it comes down to is like sharing these stories and ensuring that it's coming from credible sources because that's another conversation of, you know, topical conversations that, you know, what you're reading, you're not entirely sure about, but. What I believe is at the core of what these businesses really need to work on is like actually having meaningful action and sharing that in a genuine nature. And of course, much easier said than done, but I think slowly and surely we're starting to see the pressures actually cause corporations to recognize this and try to work towards that.
Chris Brandt:And I think that's, I think you're so spot on with the transparency piece. Cause I, I do think, you know, like A company that's historically not done great things, you know, like having them, you know, turn it around and start to do things they have a lot that they can make an impact on. Right? I mean, there's a lot of room there to really improve upon things. And I'm, I'm kind of a, you know, I do believe in incremental change, you know, as frustrating as it can be, you know, um, As opposed to sort of radical change, but you know, like I was, I was interviewing, um, uh, an interview, uh, uh, interviewed a company called upwing energy and, you know, they're in, in, in the, the drilling business quite frankly, but they're, you know, they developed a pump that goes in and, and can extract, because when you do make these wells, you only extract like 20 percent of the resources and then the rest of it just sits in there and then you got to go drill another well. Well, he's like, well, I got a pump that can operate down there and actually move that Yeah. Extra, you know, get it to 50, 60, 70, you know, percent of extraction. So we don't have to go and create new wells, which may destroy environments or be problematic everywhere. Now, I'm not excited about, you know, prolonging the life of the, the, the gas, you know, Hydrocarbons industries necessarily, you know, I would love to see cleaner technologies, but, you know, it's not going to change. We have to accept the reality. It's not going to change overnight and incremental change is going to, you know, help us get to a point faster than, you know, just arguing about whether or not, you know, we, we, we need to get rid of it all or, or, or not, you know, um, and I see this as sort of the same kind of situation.
Ricky Marton:I completely agree with that, Chris, and it's really well said. And I love that example. Um, I was having a conversation with this clean tech company, and they're actually working in partnership with some of these oil and gas firms because the drilling is very inefficient. They oftentimes leave a lot of on top things. And so what their tech actually does, it's, it's in the carbon sequestration space, and they're able to put CO2 underneath these reserves that are deep inside the earth. And they're actually able to use that storage technique. to lift the remaining, uh, like amount of things they're trying to extract from the earth. And so that allows you to tap into not only, you know, 20, 30, 40%, but actually lift it and create a full depletion of the resources and then cap it off in a permanent storage for the CO2. So that's, that goes on this question of like, you know, where are we in the future? You know, how far, how much money is needed to get to these goals that we're putting out there? You know, cop 28 just came out and we have these ambitious claims and the trillions upon trillions of dollars needed a year. But at the end of the day, I think Incremental innovation is going to be what gets us closer and you can't, you know, the whole, you know, how to eat an elephant one bite at a time, you need to look at these really little steps along the way and ensuring that you, um, you're making like the right means and looking at the right players in the space that can help push it forward. So. I completely agree with everything you said, Chris,
Chris Brandt:and I think hyenas have really figured out how to eat the elephant and it's not a pleasant story.
Ricky Marton:That's what I don't want to witness, but
Chris Brandt:they started an end you, you wouldn't want to start at. That's apparently the softest part to start chewing on, but, but you know, I, you know, in the, in the, in the sort of the world of, you know, climate change that we're dealing with, you know, I, I do. I'm seeing an increasing number of people who are saying, you know, we've kind of already passed the point, you know, of no return. And now we need to be in the world of mitigation strategies and things like that. And so a lot of these things can help to mitigate, you know, some of the challenges and struggles that we're going to going to be facing. So, you know, I think that's going to be increasingly important, even if we don't get to the goals, you know, the ambitious goals that we have. You know, set for ourselves that are going to be very difficult to hit
Ricky Marton:and to touch on that too. And I will by no means declare myself a climate expert and there's some brilliant minds working in the space. It's, it's tangentially related to our industry, certainly. And I think what you said is spot on and what we will like really put emphasis on is. the collaboration piece, you know, it's, it's great to see these groups coming together, these different countries coming together, but I think it needs to come all the grassroots level, you know, like what individuals can work on something together, push forward and maybe a university program and create some really unique solution that's novel and understood, understood by just them and how can we scale it and apply it to the rest of the world or two different contexts that can benefit from these. And that's, you know, pitching KORUG and that's where the partnership piece comes in, you know, using these shared resources, shared thinking. Creating these innovative ideas that cause from, you know, breaking through the silos. I love that. That's, I think, what's gonna move the needle, and that's what's gonna really create some positive change. And, and that's truly what I'm excited about seeing. Tell me what's next
Chris Brandt:for Koru. I mean, like, where do you go from here? You've, you've kind of, um, you, you've recently rebranded the company and I know you, you, you're, you've, you've put together this, um. You know, online service to sort of do all this, you know, very clever matching here. And, you know, like, where do you go from here with
Ricky Marton:all that? This is an exciting topic for me. And currently at this juncture, we recently signed a partnership with Green Sports Alliance, an amazing membership group that allows sports teams, stadiums, different leagues to be more sustainable in their work. And so coming this next year, we're going to be working with a number of these great teams and leagues that are trying to push forward and put action behind some of the practices that they already implement. And so this is step one for us as a business where we're putting this analytic piece to the matchmaking component. What I really want to do with KORU is create what I like to call the crystal ball of partnerships, and that allows us to take this concept of digital twins. I can go in a rabbit hole talking about this, but it's looking at what exists in real life and then creating a virtual digital copy of it and then having scenario testing done on this virtual version. And what that's going to be able to do for us is have enough data, enough modeling put together in one place, learning from what makes for a good partnership. And also bad partnership and then be able to create a predictive technology that is able to help companies find the most innovative, most unique and highly efficacious partnerships in the space. And so boil it all down to the fact that right now we're kind of shooting from the hip when it comes to our partnership formation. We are trying to link up with organizations, nonprofits, international government organizations, maybe research groups over here, a mission driven startup over here. But I think what's going to really set us apart and what I'm really thrilled about is being able to use all this technology to create this piece that says, Hey, these are five options for you. The benefits that will come from it are this, this and this, but maybe option number three is really ideal because you won't have to avoid all these unintended consequences from the other one. And these are some creative solutions that you can employ with it and pulling the innovative technologies in the space that we know are existing and only going to continue to accelerate from here on and tapping into the potential in the partnership game to create this. Profit generation, this product development and this purpose driven synergy piece all together in one place. And so once coworking happened to that and really exploit that aspect of like, how do we use predictive and analytics to create the future and what it looks like and guide companies through that partnership process, that's, I think, when we have a product that's really going to set ourselves ahead and do a lot of really incredible things as far as, you know, creating good for the world. You know, I've
Chris Brandt:certainly had some interesting companies on, on this podcast that, uh, I feel like are doing really cool, good things. So if you ever need a connection there, I am happy to, to make that, um, you know, thanks so much for being on. I love the work you're doing. I think this is really important stuff. And I think that, um, the more. You know, we have people like you out there doing this, the better the world is going to become. So thanks for doing what you do. Excited to see where you go from here and congratulations on your success so far.
Ricky Marton:Yeah, I appreciate that, Chris. And likewise, I mean, it's always fun to have engaging conversations with like minded individuals. And, you know, at the end of the day, it's all about visibility. It's getting people to ask the questions and think about this name for the first time or put a more concerted effort to it. So I'm really glad we had the opportunity to chat, looking forward to engaging in the future. And, you know, I appreciate all the well wishes and I'm looking forward to hearing what you do as well. So thanks for your time. And so where do they go
Chris Brandt:to find, find you guys?
Ricky Marton:Yeah. So you can, you can find our website. It's a typical it's it's www. Koru. global. So K O R U dot global. And you can email me at Ricky at Koru.global. So R I C K Y at the website and happy to field all questions. We're in this very sponge like state. So we want to hear your problems, your challenges, what you're doing as a business, like there's no thing that I think is too small and I enjoy really trying to tap into the core root and be creative with it. So I urge you to reach out and, you know, I appreciate that. That shout out for us, Chris. That's awesome.
Chris Brandt:And I'll put some links and thanks again for being on. I appreciate it. Excellent.
Ricky Marton:It was a great time. Thanks, Chris. Thanks.
Chris Brandt:Thanks for watching. I love to hear from you in the comments. And I know I always say that, but if you comment, I generally try to respond, you know, unless it's something really weird. And please, if you can give us a like, think about subscribing and I will see you in the next one.